The Complex Echoes of Chinese Hip-Hop: A Look at “Iron Mic”

VICE China’s inaugural feature-length documentary, “Iron Mic,” directed by Billy Starman, was never destined for the mainstream success of his previous work, “Touching the Void.” Unlike the rapid 17-day shoot with Edison Chen, this project spanned nearly two years, traversing over a dozen cities, engaging with a diverse array of MCs, and delving into a wealth of historical material to chronicle the sixteen-year history of Iron Mic, China’s (and arguably the world’s) longest-running rap battle competition.

The Rise and Fall of a Hip-Hop Institution

The crew filmed seven Iron Mic regional competitions in 2016, but the scene was bleak. “There weren’t even any good battles to film, nothing compared to the historical footage,” Starman lamented. Showtyme’s freestyle rap competition, a Detroit staple for 17 years, was clearly on the decline.

It was Showtyme who initially approached Billy Starman, eager to share his story with the world. In VICE’s Shanghai office, Showtyme sat before three cameras, spending five hours presenting crucial Iron Mic footage, providing his own commentary on each clip. He subsequently provided the team with material accumulated since 2002 in three installments. The grainy, dimly lit footage captured generations of MCs pushing their mental limits in intense, head-to-head battles, pursuing their hip-hop dreams with unwavering dedication. The world of Iron Mic was never pristine; Showtyme emphasized the ever-present elements of “face, lies, and money” in Mandarin. Yet, in an era where even Iron Mic champions couldn’t amass fortunes, the event represented pure honor, the ultimate stage for MCs.

Unveiling Complexities

After interviewing Showtyme and sifting through the extensive footage, Billy Starman and his team began interviewing key figures. He later realized that differences in education, background, and cultural aspirations created a persistent disconnect between Showtyme and the local scene. “People who had worked with Showtyme often expressed complex emotions when discussing him,” Starman noted.

Despite these challenges, Showtyme and his Iron Mic event remain a significant chapter in Chinese rap history. “I respect his dedication and admire his ‘Hip-Hop nerd’ approach to documenting the scene,” Starman said. When “The Rap of China” premiered in June 2017, triggering a massive wave of interest, Showtyme hoped to ride the crest.

However, the film’s premiere in Shanghai on October 6th left Showtyme and Billy Starman feeling exposed and awkward. Days later, Billy Starman received lengthy messages from Showtyme, expressing feelings of neglect at the premiere and criticizing the documentary’s pessimistic portrayal of Iron Mic and its “creepy” depiction of him. Showtyme felt let down, merely one voice among the many in “Iron Mic.” In Billy Starman’s hip-hop documentaries, “Touching the Void” and “The Chuan Yu Trap” exuded success and dreams, while “Iron Mic” carried a more complex scent, the stale aroma of dreams after they’ve settled.

A Shift in Focus

The documentary also deviated from Billy Starman’s initial vision of focusing on Iron Mic’s rise and fall. After starting the project, he realized that “this process is difficult to quantify and visualize.”

Ultimately, he decided on a directorial approach that would “use each person’s story with Iron Mic to piece together ‘a documentary about Chinese freestyle rap,’ discussing some ‘topics about hip-hop culture in China.’”

“Iron Mic” lacks immediately captivating stories and clashes. The two Iron Mic battles of the highest caliber that were selected—MC David vs. MC Ma Jun, and Da Gou vs. Lil’ Ray—revealed varied attitudes from the participants in their interviews, but any past animosity had dissipated.

Wang Bo, who appears in the film for five minutes, is a “legendary figure” who even seems to negate everything. Mentioned by many, he was quickly elevated to the position of the forefather of Chinese rap and is acutely aware of the meaning of “praise to kill.” Billy Starman spoke with him twice, each time for three hours, the first time just chatting over beer without cameras. Listening to Wang Bo speak is reminiscent of Cui Jian. Both rock and rap are rooted in questioning and exploration.

Wang Bo reflects on the meaning of freestyle rap, tracing the painful, political essence of hip-hop. His talk of inner feelings and inclusiveness sounds far less timely than the audition logic of “The Rap of China.”

But beyond his five minutes on screen, Wang Bo is quite open-minded about new things, not a stubborn old-timer. Billy Starman, who shares his values, also respects the attitude of “taking care of oneself before talking about rap art.” However, in today’s commercial world, they stand on the side of the egg, trying to present another dimension of hip-hop. “Don’t ignore the complexity of things.” From this perspective, “Iron Mic” has more depth than the more glamorous “Touching the Void” and “The Chuan Yu Trap.”

Interview with Billy Starman

The Paper: What was the trigger for making this documentary? Why 2015? What made it worth spending the longest time since you started working in documentary filmmaking?

Billy Starman: At the end of 2015, Showtyme found me through our mutual friend to seek help, hoping to show the Iron Mic material he had accumulated over the years to young people in China in some way. At that time, I knew almost nothing about Iron Mic, but I intuitively judged that it would be a great story, and Showtyme’s feeling at the time was that he wanted to retire and hand this matter over to Chinese partners to operate. Later, my team and I first looked for all the Iron Mic videos we could find online, and then spent a lot of time watching the historical material Showtyme brought, which was a preliminary understanding. During the early filming, we talked to everyone involved to get a deeper understanding. We filmed and edited at the same time, and it was not completed until October 2017. It’s not that “Iron Mic” is worth me spending so long, but under the premise that I and VICE China have the production resources, the production process naturally lasted so long.

The Paper: What part of Hip-Hop culture do you like the most, is it freestyle battle?

Billy Starman: The orthodox definition of Hip-Hop culture generally divides it into four parts: rap, graffiti, break dance, and DJ. Among these four parts, I pay the most attention to rap, because I was a music fan at the earliest. In rap music, I pay more attention to “linguistics,” not only the lyrics, but also the way the singer expresses music and conveys information.

As a cultural import, Hip-Hop will inevitably produce some misunderstandings and misunderstandings when it comes to China, one of which is “if you are a rapper, you must be able to freestyle.” In many people’s subconscious, freestyle is an essential skill for a rapper to distinguish himself from ordinary people, and we have always liked to watch the form of “1vs1 duel,” so freestyle battle has become a stepping stone for many young Chinese people to come into contact with rap music. Maybe because I am older, I listened to a few years of pirated tapes before seeing “8 Mile,” so freestyle battle was not what attracted me at first. In the process of filming and producing “Iron Mic,” I had more understanding and understanding of it.

The Paper: Have you seen many battle scenes? What is your personal experience? The battle scene is highly interactive. Have you ever thought about interviewing people offstage (purely audience)?

Billy Starman: When I was in college in 2005, I saw the final video of Cha Mi and Young Kin online, but I didn’t know what kind of competition it was at the time. In 2006 and 2007, I went to see the “Dragon and Tiger Fight” competition site and witnessed the pinnacle of Little Tiger’s freestyle battle. In our filming of the Iron Mic competition in 2016, we filmed some interviews with the audience, but the way the final editing was adopted may be to put the camera and the director’s perspective on the audience’s side, which played more of a “questioning” role.

The Paper: How different is the structural design, direction, and trade-offs before starting the machine from the final finished product?

Billy Starman: Before starting the machine, we first collected as much historical material as possible. In addition to Showtyme’s own collection, a website called MOGO once recorded 4 or 5 years of Iron Mic competitions, but unfortunately we were unable to contact the copyright holder in the end. At that time, there were many assumptions about the possibilities. The final finished product is the result of the optimal choice within the scope of our team’s capabilities and resources. Some deeper levels are not something we can currently reach, and the incomplete parts can only be regarded as regrets.

The Paper: The film focuses on the Iron Mic event and hardly explains the general background of Chinese rap and its position in this history. Is it because of the length or are there other reasons?

Billy Starman: The starting point of “Iron Mic” is to tell “the story of Iron Mic,” hoping to see the big from the small, and I think it has been achieved in the end. The whole film is not based on the timeline, so it is difficult to reflect the part of the general background of Chinese rap. In fact, everyone’s interview will mention some things more or less, but it may not be detailed enough for viewers who have not experienced it.

In fact, the entire director’s idea can be roughly summarized as: we use “everyone’s story with Iron Mic” to piece together “a documentary about Chinese freestyle rap,” discussing some “topics about Hip-Hop culture in China.”

The Paper: In the film, the two confrontations—MC David & MC Ma Jun, Da Gou & Lil’ Ray—why were these two selected for detailed presentation?

Billy Starman: From all aspects, these two are the highest-level duels in the history of Iron Mic, and we happen to have enough material. There are also some very classic Iron Mic competitions, but there are some restrictions, mainly the material we can get, and we can’t directly pull some unauthorized things from the Internet.

The Paper: For these two battles, viewers who have watched the film can easily take sides with one side, and Showtyme’s judgment is clearly presented in the film. Is there your attitude in this? Or is this an inevitable presentation?

Billy Starman: Why do you have to take sides? Before filming the interview, I had more or less this feeling: “David was crushed by Ma Jun” “Da Gou didn’t say as well as Lil Ray.” But each of their interviews elaborated in detail on their understanding of the “freestyle battle competition,” which is integrated with their performance in Iron Mic, which made me understand a lot of things I didn’t understand at the beginning, such as why Wang Bo made such evaluations of Ma Jun and David on the spot. In the rules of Iron Mic, the audience decides the outcome, so the audience is required to take sides. But when all this becomes a thing of the past, “taking sides” also becomes part of the story. When we look back at this story, there is no need to “take sides,” right? Choosing one side to stand on is a mindless approach. Don’t ignore the complexity of things—this is my attitude, if I have to emphasize my attitude.

The Paper: Was the story of MC Fei and Ai Re decided to give them these lengths from the beginning, or was it a gradual idea during the filming and editing process? Why did you choose their story?

Billy Starman: The length is basically decided and adjusted during the post-editing, and it is indeed a gradual idea. After initially deciding to make a full-length complete film instead of VICE’s common episodic style, our initial idea was to find one or two MCs who are active today who can echo the historical figures. But in fact, this idea is too idealistic. In the process of filming the Iron Mic sub-stations in 2016, we focused on filming the sub-station champions of each game, but in the end we did not find any great characters and stories, and we didn’t even film a few “exciting battles.” So in the final editing version, it is still dominated by historical figures and stories.

Before filming, I had never met Ai Re and Fei. Their duel happened to appear at a very subtle point in time. The audience can see from them that rap music has long been spread to the most remote parts of China, and the young people there have their own set of ways to make rap music “down to earth.” This is the most “positive energy” place in my opinion.

The Paper: Have you noticed that in the whole film, it seems that except for Ai Re, everyone else is quite sullen and their morale is relatively low. What is not mentioned in the film, but is compared as the front of a coin, is the popularity of “The Rap of China.” Why didn’t you mention it in the conversation with the interviewees? Did you talk about it in private?

Billy Starman: If the audience can understand the real meaning of Ai Re’s “happiness”… After watching the whole film, you will definitely have this feeling: “Why are Ai Re’s words and expressions so different from others?” But if the audience has the opportunity to communicate with local young people in Xinjiang, they will probably understand their unique language system.

All the interviews in the film were completed before “The Rap of China,” except for Wang Bo. Without the noise created by this summer’s “hip-hop craze,” Wang Bo might not have agreed to be interviewed by us. At that time, he also expressed some views on this program and the current situation of rap music, but in the end we did not use it, and still focused the topic on Iron Mic itself. As for why I would choose this way, it is difficult for me to explain clearly in words.

Throughout the filming process, we had exchanges with many MCs. At that time, a Korean program “Show Me The Money” was already very popular online. Compared with the rappers of the 70s and 80s, the post-90s generation has a higher degree of awareness and acceptance of Korean rap. For example, the older generation recognizes the American “1990s Golden Age” the most, while the new generation has this view: “The entire industrial level of Korean pop music is high, and SMTM is definitely worth learning from.” The facts behind “The Rap of China” prove that “rap” has not really become popular, but the variety show form of “audition” is still feasible in China. If you want to ask my personal opinion, I am against all “anti-intellectual” forms.

The Paper: The rise and fall of Iron Mic is mentioned in the film, but not in depth. Have you discussed this issue with Showtyme himself, including the reasons for the rise and fall of freestyle battle in the United States? What are the common points between the two?

Billy Starman: The rise and fall of Iron Mic as an event is actually a part that I initially wanted to focus on describing, but the final effect is not obvious, because this process is difficult to quantify and visualize. I don’t know much about the history of freestyle battle in the United States, and I haven’t discussed it in depth with Showtyme. I think the rise and fall of Iron Mic and the development trajectory of freestyle battle abroad do not have much inevitable connection. More internal organizational coordination ability and the entire cultural environment restrict its development.

The Paper: Often, it is the music projects done by foreigners in China that last longer, such as New Noise, Split Works, Iron Mic… Why do you think this is?

Billy Starman: That’s right, that’s true. First shout out to the names you mentioned. They all deserve our respect, although I usually like to make fun of expats (referring to foreigners living in China). Europeans and Americans have a different understanding of culture than we do. They respect personal value more and are used to looking at problems from a long-term perspective, which is a very valuable perspective for us locals. At the same time, they can also see more clearly the various potential opportunities in the Chinese market, most of which come from the asymmetry of cultural circulation.

The Paper: The interviewees in the film have complex feelings about Iron Mic. They hope it will survive, have new directions, and become better, but no one can say a specific direction. The film does not explain the operation mode of Iron Mic over the years in detail. More of it is to present the status and ideas of the MCs with it as a platform. Talk about the reasons for this performance.

Billy Starman: As mentioned in the previous question, the operation mode is a bit difficult to visualize. In the process of post-editing, the perspective is still more focused on “the story of each MC and Iron Mic.” “No one can say a specific direction” is part of the story, and there will not be an operation mode that can completely solve various problems and is really feasible.

The Paper: Many people in the film talk about their understanding of battle, and different people have different positions, which is very exciting. In the last part, Wang Bo, MC David, etc., their reflections and disapproval of the “second golden age” have the same position. Will this be a one-sided statement? Why didn’t the idea of ​​confrontation with them appear?

Billy Starman: The “second golden age” is actually a pseudo-proposition. It is a statement I saw on the Internet and asked every interviewee. The reason why the corresponding “first golden age” is remembered is because of the musical works left at that time. The “untouchable line” was not obvious at that time, and some brave people have been trying. At a certain point in time, money may be the standard for measuring value, but the passage of time will tell us that money will depreciate and will be spent. The real value is something that can be passed down and comes more from the spiritual level. Everyone has different demands for rap music. If his idea is “first take care of yourself and everything will make sense,” then he will inevitably imagine positive possibilities; if he thinks about “what will rap music really bring me,” then there will inevitably be David and Wang Bo’s reflections. As an outsider, I respect both of these starting points.

The Paper: It is always the case that the older generation who stick to their beliefs are cautious about trends and are more likely to feel that their era is purer and better. Wang Bo spoke the most thoroughly. He talked about the painful and political essence of Hip-Hop, and reflected on the rationality of battle forcing out the dirtiest things in people’s hearts. He has gone farther than most interviewees. How did you consider the presentation and length of this character?

Billy Starman: Initially, Wang Bo was unwilling to be interviewed. He had his own considerations and did not want to express any views on Iron Mic. At the beginning, our editing was based on the premise of “Wang Bo not appearing on camera.” Everyone mentioned him, but he himself never appeared. Later, I sent this rough cut version to Wang Bo because there was still him in some historical material and I needed to get his permission. After reading it, he said that he could accept our interview, so I quickly ran to Beijing to film him, and this interview was put at the end.

Many people on the Internet say that “the first Chinese rap is surnamed Wang,” but now he tells us in person: “There is no first.” This can be regarded as a “reversal” in the entire plot, giving the audience a new perspective to think about. We filmed the interview for more than 3 hours, and only a few minutes were cut out in the end. Some words will inevitably be “taken out of context,” causing misunderstandings. In fact, Wang Bo’s attitude towards “trends” is still very positive. He has always been happy to learn and accept new forms of music, and he is also helping and supporting some young musicians.

The Paper: Before filming documentaries, you also worked in the music industry for a while. What are the different perspectives from different positions? Can filming documentaries help you better understand this industry, or more utilitarianly speaking, provide better ideas for making music projects?

Billy Starman: Filming documentaries and some music projects that I am doing are not very related. These two are not in the same industry. The documentaries produced by VICE in the past are to view and interpret some cultural phenomena from the perspective of youth media, while the music projects I participate in, such as the Do Hits label, represent more of my personal taste and the possibilities that I personally think are valuable. Of course, this “value” is not economic value, and I don’t have much ability in this regard at present.

The Paper: The generational change in the Hip-Hop circle is very fast, and 30-year-old Ma Jun has already used “children” to refer to the younger generation. During the filming and interviewing process, can you feel a clear sense of generation?

Billy Starman: Of course, it’s not just Hip-Hop. From the level of the music world, music all over the world is evolving very quickly, and we in China have not completely synchronized with the pace of Europe, America, Japan, and South Korea. From the level of the real world, China’s pace is particularly fast. Every batch of buildings is built, and every batch of young people grow up and begin to express themselves. Different language systems and different values ​​are all reflected in rap music.

The Paper: Edison Chen and the MCs, do they have a common “hip-hop spirit”?

Billy Starman: I understand what you want to ask, but I feel that it is inaccurate to describe this commonality with “hip-hop spirit.” As Wang Bo said, Hip-Hop has great inclusiveness, and even people with completely different growth trajectories can realize their value through it.

The Paper: Freestyle is essentially a jianghu and handmade. Is it possible for it and business to be compatible and produce better results?

Billy Starman: Hip-Hop has a big feature, that is, it is more tolerant of business; compared to other forms of music, rap music is also easier to combine with business. But I hope that the audience of “Iron Mic” can think about whether business is really the ultimate goal? Perhaps at present, they are indeed always tied together, but that is more like business co-opting culture. We pursue the evolution of Hip-Hop, and ultimately it is to be able to express ourselves more freely. There are bigger things in this world than business.